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Mark Jenkins21 April 2022

Mark Jenkins on Leveraged Finance and Pension Plans

3Frameworks
15Insights

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Frameworks in this episode

Insights & moments

The myth-busts, hot takes, explainers, and tools worth keeping.

Myth Buster· 2

Myth Buster26:53

More Capital Does Not Automatically Create More Opportunities

Scale expands transaction access, but investment capacity is constrained by the available opportunity set and the organization's ability to execute. Jenkins warns that assets can grow faster than teams, sourcing, and underwriting capacity, damaging investor outcomes.

  • Scale allows participation in larger global transactions.
  • Fundraising must remain linked to investment opportunities.
  • Capital can grow faster than execution capacity.
  • Teams and platform capabilities must expand alongside assets.

“you don't have infinite opportunities”

Mark Jenkins · 28:48

“you have to continually build the team in the platform that allows you to scale into the opportunity set”

Mark Jenkins · 28:51
#scale#asset-management#fundraising#execution
Myth Buster46:44

Distressed Debt Has Become Private Equity Light

Distressed investing is more crowded and less scalable than it once was. Taking control of a distressed company also requires board oversight, management supervision, and a post-acquisition value-creation plan, making the work resemble private equity rather than conventional credit analysis.

  • More capital has crowded large distressed opportunities.
  • Small distressed deals are operationally difficult.
  • Control investing requires governance and operating skills.
  • Structured minority equity may offer a more suitable alternative.

“I liken it to uh private equity light.”

Mark Jenkins · 47:35

“if you do true distress for control or you're gonna take over a company, you really have to have a post acquisition value creation plan,…”

Mark Jenkins · 47:39
#distressed-debt#private-equity#restructuring#governance

Hot Take· 2

Hot Take32:47

Volatility Can Be an Advantage for Private Lenders

Public capital markets often withdraw from complicated companies after a modest disruption or negative shift in sentiment. Private lenders can use deeper information access and longer underwriting processes to finance fundamentally good businesses that public markets temporarily avoid.

  • Well-priced calm markets can be highly competitive.
  • Volatility creates pricing and access opportunities.
  • Complex companies may lose public-market access after minor setbacks.
  • Private lenders can perform work that broad capital markets will not.

“the volatility is a good thing for us”

Mark Jenkins · 32:47

“Volatility is actually UM creates vast opportunity”

Mark Jenkins · 32:52
#volatility#private-lending#market-dislocation
Hot Take1:00:48

Investment History Rhymes, but Change Is Not Circular

Jenkins warns against assuming markets simply repeat historical cycles. The underlying structures evolve, and the pace of change has accelerated, so historical analogies must be adapted rather than copied mechanically.

  • Change is constant in investing.
  • History remains useful but incomplete.
  • Market evolution differs from simple repetition.
  • Faster change requires adaptable investment thinking.

“change is constant. Change is constant”

Mark Jenkins · 1:00:53

“Some people say it's circular, but I think it's it evolves as opposed to circular.”

Mark Jenkins · 1:01:05
#change#market-history#adaptability#investing

Explainer· 8

Explainer12:35

Liquid, Illiquid, and Real-Asset Credit Explained

Credit is not a monolithic asset class but a spectrum of exposures and expected outcomes. Jenkins divides Carlyle's platform into liquid credit, private or illiquid credit, and real-asset credit backed by assets such as property, infrastructure, and aircraft.

  • Liquid credit includes leveraged loans and CLOs.
  • Illiquid credit includes direct lending, opportunistic credit, and distress.
  • Real-asset credit is tied to hard assets and their cash flows.
  • Combining the silos can diversify single-name credit risk.

“credit which isn't really a monolithic asset class like it has a range of exposures and a range of expected outcomes”

Mark Jenkins · 12:44

“all of those from ourn investor's perspective, allow you to um put together a portfolio that is diverse away from just single name credit.”

Mark Jenkins · 13:29
#credit#private-credit#real-assets#diversification
Explainer14:37

An Aircraft Is Only as Valuable as Its Lease Network

Owning aircraft does not by itself create a dependable investment. Value also depends on long-term airline leases, geographic and counterparty diversification, and the ability to restructure contracts when travel markets are disrupted.

  • The aircraft is the hard collateral.
  • Lease contracts produce the usable cash flow.
  • Airline and country diversification reduce concentration.
  • Fleet retirements and lower production can increase midlife aircraft values.

“the actual metal in the sky only has value to the extent you have a contract to lease it out.”

Mark Jenkins · 14:44

“the metal in the sky is relevant, but as relevant is are the long term contracts that you have with the with the airlines”

Mark Jenkins · 15:36
#aviation#leasing#hard-assets#cash-flow
Explainer17:14

How Bank Retrenchment Created the Private-Credit Boom

Banks shifted from holding loans as inventory toward distributing risk, leaving room for institutional private lenders. Falling rates simultaneously pushed return-seeking investors into less-liquid alternatives, helping private credit grow rapidly from a relatively small base.

  • Bank lending retrenchment began before the financial crisis.
  • Banks increasingly ship rather than retain credit risk.
  • Low yields encouraged institutional allocations to alternatives.
  • Private credit remained small relative to global public markets despite rapid growth.

“They no longer hold inventory they're shippers at the risk right”

Mark Jenkins · 17:54

“what we have today is a private credit market that's grown from three billion, it's over triple to one point one trillion today.”

Mark Jenkins · 19:15
#private-credit#banks#alternatives#interest-rates
Explainer21:01

Why Floating-Rate Loans Behave Differently When Rates Rise

Jenkins contrasts falling high-yield valuations with the relative stability of leveraged loans early in a rising-rate period. Their floating coupons and short duration reduce direct rate sensitivity, although the eventual concern shifts to borrower credit quality as financing costs rise and growth slows.

  • Longer-duration fixed income loses value as rates rise.
  • Leveraged loans have floating coupons and very low duration.
  • Early price declines can reflect rates rather than defaults.
  • Later risks may come from weaker borrower fundamentals.

“Leverage loans are flat. Now why is that? Because they're floating right zero like zero point five duration versus a longer duration fixed income on.”

Mark Jenkins · 21:12

“There's not been a fundamental shifting credit yet.”

Mark Jenkins · 21:26
#floating-rate#leveraged-loans#duration#rates
Explainer39:34

When Giving Up Liquidity Can Improve Returns

Long-horizon institutions may be paying for liquidity they do not need. By allocating an appropriate portion of their portfolios to private assets, they can potentially earn an illiquidity premium while matching the investment horizon of their liabilities.

  • Liquidity has a price.
  • Long-lived liabilities can support illiquid allocations.
  • Private credit may add roughly 100 to 250 basis points.
  • The allocation must still respect actual cash-flow needs.

“if you don't have a need for that liquidity, you're effectively getting a discount in public fixed income markets.”

Barry Ritholtz · 40:30

“you can afford to have this much of alloquidity in your portfolio, you should tuck that away, and you should pick up that illiquidity premium.”

Mark Jenkins · 41:00
#illiquidity#institutional-investing#returns#asset-allocation
Explainer41:39

Private Equity Dry Powder Drives Demand for Private Credit

Private-equity capital creates a multiple of financing demand, while companies remaining private for longer further expand the addressable market. Jenkins argues that these structural factors support continued private-credit growth beyond temporary low-rate conditions.

  • Private-equity dry powder generates acquisition-financing demand.
  • Buyout financing can be several times the equity invested.
  • The number of public companies has fallen.
  • Longer private-company lifespans increase demand for non-public capital.

“there's over one point three trillion of dry powder and private equity today”

Mark Jenkins · 41:41

“people are staying in private for longer and as a result of that, the need for our capital is greater than it probably was ten…”

Mark Jenkins · 42:32
#private-equity#private-credit#dry-powder#financing
Explainer43:02

Why Infrastructure Can Support Long-Duration Credit

Infrastructure projects require large amounts of debt, but banking regulations and balance-sheet constraints can limit long-duration lending. Assets with regulated rates or usage charges can offer comparatively stable returns and help insurers match long-term liabilities.

  • Infrastructure equity often requires much larger credit financing.
  • Some banks avoid or limit long-duration infrastructure loans.
  • Regulated or contractual charges can stabilize asset returns.
  • Long-duration assets can match insurance liabilities.

“my thought was always going to be that the capital markets would become a more relevant part of infrastructure finance”

Mark Jenkins · 43:43

“assets that have an underlying rate or regulatory charge that allows you to have more confidence in the stability of the return on that asset…”

Mark Jenkins · 44:26
#infrastructure#long-duration#insurance#project-finance
Explainer48:30

How Structured Equity Trades Some Upside for a Downside Cushion

Structured equity can provide growth capital without requiring a full sale of control. The investor may accept capped upside in exchange for collateral, preferred claims, governance rights, or other protections that cushion losses while leaving management in control.

  • Structured equity can involve a minority position.
  • Collateral can protect the downside.
  • Preferred equity sits deeper in the capital structure.
  • Governance rights can substitute partly for control.

“we've limited a bit of our upside, but we've also taken a big cushion on the downside.”

Mark Jenkins · 48:46

“we have really good governance structures, but we don't have control.”

Mark Jenkins · 48:24
#structured-equity#minority-investment#downside-protection#capital-structure

Takeaway· 3

Takeaway08:18

Why Pension Capital Is a Sacred Trust

Jenkins says personal connections to Canadian pension beneficiaries made institutional investing tangible rather than abstract. He frames every loss in terms of the workers and communities whose contributions produced the capital, creating a heightened sense of fiduciary duty.

  • Know whose money you manage.
  • Translate portfolio losses into their human cost.
  • Pension investing carries a heightened duty of care.
  • Managing beneficiary capital is a privilege.

“the money that I was investing the sacred trust were literally nineteen million people are giving you money to invest on their behalf is a…”

Mark Jenkins · 09:03

“I do still think it's a sacred trust and it's a privilege to manage money.”

Mark Jenkins · 09:39
#fiduciary-duty#pensions#leadership
Takeaway54:53

The Best Mentors May Be Facilitators, Not Instructors

Jenkins describes influential mentors as people who supplied perspective, backed long-term ideas, and removed organizational barriers. Their value came less from prescribing each move and more from creating room for him to build.

  • Perspective and empathy can reshape leadership behavior.
  • Sponsors can mobilize institutional support.
  • Strong mentors listen before guiding.
  • Clearing organizational obstacles can be more valuable than instruction.

“I would call them mentor facilitators if you which were people who not so much mentored me, but but put pushed me in certain directions.”

Mark Jenkins · 54:56

“more or less have cleared the lanes to to allow me to do what I think is the right thing to get to business going”

Mark Jenkins · 57:15
#mentorship#leadership#career#sponsorship
Takeaway59:51

Early-Career Ignorance Is Permission to Ask More Questions

Jenkins advises graduates to be obsessively curious while expectations are still low. Junior professionals can ask basic questions without pretending to possess experience they have not yet earned, accelerating learning and helping them discover durable interests.

  • Curiosity drives learning.
  • Junior status gives permission to ask basic questions.
  • Passion and curiosity reinforce one another.
  • Questions help reveal the field worth pursuing.

“the biggest thing you can do is is to be obsessively curious”

Mark Jenkins · 59:58

“You have the ability to be curious in an uninhibited way because nobody expects you to know anything.”

Mark Jenkins · 1:00:07
#curiosity#career#learning#graduates