MMasters in Business
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09 December 2016

Interview With Michael Lewis: Masters in Business (Audio)

2Frameworks
9Insights

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Frameworks in this episode

Insights & moments

The myth-busts, hot takes, explainers, and tools worth keeping.

Hot Take· 1

Hot Take20:22

Why a Simple Lie Can Beat a Complicated Truth

Lewis describes how paid campaigns can flood the public sphere with claims that are easy to repeat while the underlying truth remains technical and difficult to explain. Audiences may interpret the presence of opposing assertions as evidence of two equally credible sides, allowing false equivalence to neutralize accurate reporting.

  • Propaganda travels faster than technical explanations
  • Online repetition can make fabricated claims appear legitimate
  • People often infer that conflicting statements deserve equal weight
  • A factual story may need an organized advocate to affect policy
  • Lewis credits IEX with sustaining the counterargument

“the lies travel so fast and the truth is complicated”

Michael Lewis · 20:41

“It's people to say, oh, it must be two stories there, the classic false equivalence”

Michael Lewis · 21:10
#propaganda#false equivalence#truth#media

Explainer· 1

Explainer16:47

Why Flash Boys Provoked a Wall Street Counterattack

Lewis says Flash Boys differed from his earlier Wall Street books because it described a profitable practice still happening in real time. If the book helped stop that activity, market participants stood to lose billions, creating incentives for lobbying, legal pressure, and public attacks.

  • Lewis did not initially consider the claim that markets were rigged controversial
  • The book addressed ongoing conduct rather than completed history
  • Changing the system threatened active revenue streams
  • Opponents hired lobbyists and launched public attacks
  • Lewis compared the response to a political campaign

“It's the first time and the only time I've written a book that was going to take money away from Wall Street people”

Michael Lewis · 17:55

“it was like being on the receiving end of a political campaign.”

Michael Lewis · 18:30
#flash boys#wall street#market structure#high-frequency trading

Story· 6

Story01:43

Why Michael Lewis Walked Away From Salomon Brothers

Lewis always wanted to write but did not know whether it could become a career. After publishing articles while working at Salomon Brothers, he was discovered behind a pseudonym and offered the chance to write a book, prompting him to leave despite colleagues questioning his sanity.

  • Lewis wrote magazine articles while working in derivatives
  • A critical Wall Street Journal article caused friction inside Salomon Brothers
  • He used his mother's name, Diana Bleaker, as a pseudonym
  • A book offer gave him the opening to leave finance
  • His managers treated the decision like a mental-health intervention

“I knew going in that I wanted to write for a living.”

Michael Lewis · 02:59

“I'm out of here. I'm gonna'm gonna be gonna be a writer.”

Michael Lewis · 05:18
#career change#salomon brothers#writing#wall street
Story05:49

The Notes and Access That Made Liar's Poker Possible

Lewis did not keep a conventional diary throughout his finance career, but he recorded extensive details during training and later began treating his surroundings as literary material. Salomon Brothers employees even supplied training videos and interviews, reflecting how little scandal they anticipated from the book.

  • Lewis recorded details throughout the training program
  • He began viewing his workplace as literary material about six months before leaving
  • Training videos helped him reconstruct dialogue accurately
  • Mortgage chief Lewis Ranieri and traders assisted his reporting
  • The firm did not initially treat the book as a threat

“I started taking an interest in the what was specifically going on around me, uh as possible literary material maybe six months before I left”

Michael Lewis · 06:09

“I went and interviewed all the mortgage traders.”

Michael Lewis · 07:01
#liars poker#source material#wall street#reporting
Story09:45

The Relationship That Pulled Lewis Into The Undoing Project

Lewis initially met Daniel Kahneman out of curiosity rather than with a book in mind. Their walks and conversations revealed the dramatic intellectual partnership between Kahneman and Amos Tversky, which Lewis came to view as a romance conducted through ideas.

  • A Berkeley psychologist introduced Lewis to Kahneman
  • Lewis and Kahneman became friends over repeated walks
  • The central attraction was Kahneman's relationship with Tversky
  • Lewis described their collaboration as an intellectual romance
  • Tversky's son had previously been one of Lewis's writing students

“I didn't go up thinking I'm gonna write a book about him, and I gotten. We just became friends.”

Michael Lewis · 11:02

“The sex was having the ideas”

Michael Lewis · 11:18
#daniel kahneman#amos tversky#psychology#friendship
Story12:59

The Five-Year Path to Kahneman's Cooperation

Kahneman never decisively rejected Lewis's proposed book, but he remained skeptical and concerned. Lewis waited until Kahneman finished his own book and continued raising the project until Kahneman became willing to answer questions, even though he never became enthusiastic about participating.

  • Kahneman's own book had to be completed first
  • His publisher and agent feared Lewis might take the idea
  • Kahneman expressed skepticism rather than issuing a firm refusal
  • Lewis wanted willing participation but never fully achieved it
  • The process lasted about five years

“There were two stages of this assault.”

Michael Lewis · 13:06

“I wanted him to want to do it, and I never got him there.”

Michael Lewis · 13:49
#daniel kahneman#book access#patience#the undoing project
Story26:22

The One Question That Turned Moneyball Into a Book

Moneyball began as a prospective short magazine story built around a simple anomaly: how were the low-budget Oakland A's winning so many games? A day with the front office revealed a much larger market-efficiency story about systematic errors in player evaluation, though Lewis needed six weeks to understand its shape and another year to report it.

  • The initial question was simply how Oakland kept winning
  • The team's payroll was about one-fifth of the Yankees' payroll
  • A low-budget team matching richer competitors suggested market inefficiency
  • Sports reporters had largely ignored the financial and evaluative mechanism
  • The A's were rethinking player value and conventional baseball strategy

“Moneyball started as a magazine piece because I just had a question for the Oakland A's like, how are you winning?”

Michael Lewis · 26:22

“If the market's efficient, that makes no sense that you should buy all the best players and just beat the A's.”

Michael Lewis · 27:20
#moneyball#oakland athletics#market efficiency#baseball
Story32:11

The LTCM Colleague Who Measured Lewis's Opportunity Cost

Lewis viewed former colleague Hans Hufschmid as a proxy for the finance career he had abandoned. Hufschmid earned enormous bonuses before investing heavily in Long-Term Capital Management, whose collapse reinforced Lewis's satisfaction with being paid to write rather than exposed to the fund's losses.

  • Lewis and Hufschmid followed similar early paths at Salomon Brothers
  • Hufschmid represented the career Lewis might have had
  • His finance earnings made Lewis occasionally consider the opportunity cost of leaving
  • LTCM's collapse erased tens of millions of dollars
  • The episode affirmed Lewis's career decision

“he was my measure of the opportunity cost.”

Michael Lewis · 32:47

“I once again was satisfied to be paid by the word”

Barry Ritholtz quoting Michael Lewis · 33:00
#ltcm#career choice#opportunity cost#finance

Takeaway· 1

Takeaway15:35

Why Lewis Finally Accepted The Undoing Project as His Book

Lewis initially feared the unfamiliar psychology and Israeli context and considered whether Malcolm Gladwell was better suited to the material. He ultimately concluded that the story required intimate access to its people, an advantage his relationships uniquely provided.

  • Lewis felt underqualified in psychology and Israeli history
  • He considered Malcolm Gladwell a natural fit for the ideas
  • The decisive requirement was getting inside the principal characters
  • Lewis recognized that his existing relationships made the project uniquely his

“I was afraid of the material because I didn't know I well, I didn't know anyth about psychology.”

Michael Lewis · 15:36

“it's got to be my book, because the only way you tell the stories if you're inside these people”

Michael Lewis · 16:03
#authorship#creative confidence#access#the undoing project