MMasters in Business
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Burt Malkiel26 May 2016

Interview With Burt Malkiel: Masters in Business (Audio)

4Frameworks
12Insights

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Insights & moments

The myth-busts, hot takes, explainers, and tools worth keeping.

Myth Buster· 1

Myth Buster1:03:18

Could Indexing Become Too Big for Markets to Work?

Malkiel was not worried with indexing at roughly 30 to 35 percent of assets because active managers still processed information. If passive ownership ever made prices less responsive, the resulting profit opportunity would attract active capital and restore the process.

  • The contemporary indexed share still left many active participants.
  • Less efficient pricing would create a new opportunity for active investors.
  • Profit-seeking entry acts as a self-correcting mechanism.
  • Malkiel therefore did not view indexing's growth as an immediate market threat.

“there are still plenty of active managers out there to make sure that nation gets reflected quickly.”

Burton Malkiel · 1:03:50

“if there is an opportunity, you can count on the fact that somebody will.”

Burton Malkiel · 1:04:20
#indexing#price discovery#active management#capitalism

Hot Take· 2

Hot Take37:19

Malkiel's Case Against an All-US Portfolio

Malkiel argues that home-country bias leaves US investors underexposed to large and growing parts of the world. In 2016 he viewed unpopular emerging markets as attractively valued and recommended at least a small passive allocation, while warning that the case was long term rather than a next-month forecast.

  • Emerging markets represented about half of world GDP and most of its population.
  • Malkiel contrasts their large economic and population shares with their market capitalization.
  • Low popularity had pushed valuations below normal while US valuations were high.
  • Lower correlation with the US could add a portfolio benefit.
  • Malkiel preferred passive exposure because active trading costs were especially high.

“people are smitten with what we call the home country bias”

Burton Malkiel · 37:33

“at least a small piece of the portfolio should be put there”

Burton Malkiel · 40:00
#emerging markets#home country bias#diversification#valuation
Hot Take1:29:53

The Retirement Crisis Starts With Not Saving Enough

Malkiel argues that many Americans were aging without adequate retirement preparation. Rather than replacing Social Security, he favored an additional payroll contribution owned by the worker and invested through index funds.

  • Malkiel identifies insufficient saving as a central retirement problem.
  • He describes many older Americans as woefully unprepared.
  • His preferred policy retained ordinary Social Security.
  • A separate additional contribution would become the worker's invested property.
  • Low-cost index funds would provide the investment vehicle.

“one of the big mistakes also that people make is that they don't save enough.”

Burton Malkiel · 1:29:53

“as a nation we are not saving enough, uh and many people are unprepared for retirement.”

Burton Malkiel · 1:31:00
#retirement#saving#social security#policy

Explainer· 5

Explainer20:28

What Automated Advice Adds Beyond Cheap Index Funds

Malkiel says Wealthfront combines low-cost index ETFs with automated rebalancing and tax-loss harvesting. In a taxable account, it can sell a losing ETF and buy a similar fund tracking a different index, preserving exposure without creating a wash sale.

  • The portfolio uses low-cost index ETFs rather than paid product placement.
  • Automated rebalancing keeps the portfolio near the client's chosen risk level.
  • Tax-loss harvesting retains market exposure through a similar but nonidentical ETF.
  • Different underlying indices help avoid wash-sale treatment.

“we are able to automatically rebalance the portfolio to keep it within the risk level that the client wants.”

Burton Malkiel · 22:44

“They are index to two different indices, so it's not a wash sale.”

Burton Malkiel · 23:42
#wealthfront#tax-loss harvesting#rebalancing#automated advice
Explainer28:40

Buffett's Edge Goes Beyond Reading Graham and Dodd

Malkiel attributes Warren Buffett's exceptional record partly to business skill and influence over management, not only stock selection. He recounts Buffett helping Katharine Graham turn around the Washington Post and notes that Buffett receives deal terms unavailable to ordinary investors.

  • Buffett joined the Washington Post board after initially buying his stake as an investment.
  • Katharine Graham described him as enormously helpful in making the company successful.
  • Buffett can improve management rather than passively waiting for valuation to close.
  • His capital and reputation unlock private terms that ordinary stock pickers cannot access.

“He's also made sure not himself, but he's put good management in and has helped managements.”

Burton Malkiel · 31:00

“he was able to go to financial institutions, get a ten percent coupon, get an equity participation, and do what other people were not able…”

Burton Malkiel · 31:55
#warren buffett#business operations#washington post#investing
Explainer43:34

Why Better Professionals Make Stock Picking Harder

Malkiel says stock selection becomes more difficult as a market becomes more professional. When well-trained participants share fast information systems, a useful idea is acted on quickly and incorporated into price, leaving fewer mistakes for another investor to exploit.

  • Uninformed buyers can create more opportunities for trained professionals.
  • Modern trading is dominated by professional participants.
  • Better training and better information reduce persistent pricing mistakes.
  • Competition converts good investment ideas into prices rapidly.

“partly the reason is that there are so many people doing it and that they are so professional in doing it.”

Burton Malkiel · 43:43

“that competition means that if somebody has got a good idea, they act on it and the price reflects that good idea.”

Burton Malkiel · 44:49
#stock picking#competition#professional investors#information
Explainer45:50

Two Reasons Investors Keep Chasing Alpha

Malkiel offers an incentive and a behavioral explanation for persistent alpha chasing. Professionals are paid well to pursue it, while human overoptimism lets individuals sincerely believe they can succeed at a task they acknowledge is difficult.

  • Finance rewards professionals for continuing the search for outperformance.
  • Malkiel does not reduce the behavior to dishonesty.
  • Overoptimism creates a personal exception: the task is hard, but I can do it.
  • Classroom surveys illustrate widespread belief in being above-average drivers.

“One is, uh, that they get paid for doing it.”

Burton Malkiel · 46:12

“this over optimism is just a part of our human nature.”

Burton Malkiel · 47:03
#alpha#overconfidence#incentives#behavioral finance
Explainer49:44

Why Successful Arbitrage Eventually Destroys Its Own Alpha

Malkiel says early hedge funds could profit from discrepancies such as futures or ETFs trading away from their underlying holdings. As more capable firms entered and copied the trades, those gaps were arbitraged away, leaving weaker returns and growing pressure on high fees.

  • Early program traders could exploit price gaps among related instruments.
  • Citadel is cited as a firm that grew through such opportunities.
  • Entry by more skilled competitors removed the discrepancy.
  • Even remaining alpha may accrue to the manager under a two-and-twenty fee structure.
  • Institutional investors were increasingly questioning hedge-fund value.

“Those opportunities now have basically been arbitraged away.”

Burton Malkiel · 51:17

“if it works, it's going to destroy the alpha's.”

Burton Malkiel · 53:59
#hedge funds#arbitrage#alpha decay#fees

Story· 4

Story09:28

Jack Bogle Bet Vanguard on an Index Fund Nobody Wanted

Malkiel called for public index funds in 1973, but credits Jack Bogle with taking the commercial risk of launching one in 1976. The initial underwriting sought at least $100 million and sold only $11 million before indexing slowly gained acceptance.

  • Malkiel advocated an investable market average before one existed for the public.
  • Bogle turned the academic proposal into a real Vanguard product.
  • The first fund's underwriting fell far short of its target.
  • Indexing grew slowly before attracting major institutional and individual assets.

“it's one thing for an academic to say, hey, there ought to be index funds. It's another thing for somebody to bet his company on…”

Burton Malkiel · 10:00

“It was very, very slow to catch on, but it did catch on”

Burton Malkiel · 10:41
#index funds#vanguard#jack bogle#financial history
Story25:51

How Jack Bogle's Personal Frugality Shaped Vanguard

Malkiel describes low cost as part of Bogle's personal character, not merely a product strategy. Even after financial success, Bogle sought cheaper hotel rooms, dressed without Wall Street flash, and embedded that frugality in Vanguard.

  • Bogle routinely asked hotels for a cheaper room than the offered bargain.
  • His lifestyle remained frugal despite his financial success.
  • Malkiel connects Bogle's habits directly with Vanguard's low-cost culture.
  • Bogle and Warren Buffett bonded partly over their similarly rumpled suits.

“this idea of low cost uh is really into his DNA.”

Burton Malkiel · 26:11

“just lives his life as frugally as you can imagine.”

Burton Malkiel · 26:49
#jack bogle#frugality#vanguard#culture
Story1:14:51

How Malkiel Built a Career in Both Business and Academia

Malkiel grew up poor, entered Wall Street to earn money, and studied economics at night before leaving Smith Barney for a Princeton doctorate. A teaching invitation and a public directorship at Prudential let him combine academic work with business rather than choosing one world.

  • He followed stock prices before he had money to invest.
  • He initially rejected academia because he wanted financial security.
  • Investment-banking travel made simultaneous doctoral study impractical.
  • After earning enough to feel secure, he left for Princeton.
  • Teaching and board service gave him parallel academic and business careers.

“I finally did make enough money so that I didn't feel poor anymore, and I took a leave of absence to go to Princeton UH…”

Burton Malkiel · 1:16:37

“someone who could live in both worlds”

Burton Malkiel · 1:18:22
#career#academia#wall street#princeton
Story1:23:09

The Army Gave Malkiel Responsibility the Private Sector Wouldn't

After business school, Malkiel was directly commissioned into the US Army Finance Corps to help convert military pay and accounting to a computerized system. He says the role gave him exceptional responsibility at age 22 and left him viewing the Army as a plausible alternative career.

  • The Army recruited trained people to modernize pay and accounting systems.
  • Malkiel joined through a direct commission after business school.
  • He led consequential work at an unusually young age.
  • The experience was rewarding despite low military pay.

“Did uh uh did the conversion of our pay and accounting system into a computerized one.”

Burton Malkiel · 1:23:51

“at the age of twenty two, I had more responsibility than anybody could possibly have had at that in the private sector.”

Burton Malkiel · 1:24:04
#army#career#computerization#responsibility