MMasters in Business
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27 August 2025

At The Money: Buying into the Ownership Society

1Frameworks
9Insights

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Frameworks in this episode

Insights & moments

The myth-busts, hot takes, explainers, and tools worth keeping.

Myth Buster· 1

Myth Buster05:37

Why an Equity Grant Is Usually Not a Lottery Ticket

The discussion challenges the assumption that employee stock routinely creates extraordinary wealth. Fishman says market gains are concentrated in a small minority of stocks, while most individual stocks lose over their full lifetimes.

  • About four percent of stocks account for most market returns.
  • Roughly eighty percent of employees sell shares after vesting.
  • Sixty-three percent of stocks are described as lifetime losers.
  • Exceptional equity outcomes are rarer than employees may assume.

“it's about four percent of stocks are responsible for the vast majority of market returns.”

Joey Fishman · 05:58

“sixty three percent of stocks are losers throughout the course of their lifetime.”

Joey Fishman · 07:59
#stock-returns#risk#employee-stock#concentration

Hot Take· 1

Hot Take10:28

Why Aggressive Conservation Easements Can Become Tax Disasters

Fishman warns that promoted conservation-easement arrangements may fail to deliver their promised tax benefits and can lead to prolonged litigation. If the IRS rejects the treatment, the resulting tax bill can overwhelm the initial savings.

  • The IRS has acted against abusive conservation-easement schemes.
  • Promoters' expected benefits may not materialize.
  • Participants can face years of litigation expense.
  • A failed arrangement can produce a severe retrospective tax bill.

“They don't materialize in the way that they promise.”

Joey Fishman · 11:14

“the tax bill that's going to be jammed down your throat is going to be so insane you'll regret having done it in the first…”

Joey Fishman · 11:22
#taxes#conservation-easements#irs#tax-risk

Explainer· 6

Explainer01:04

Why Employers Exchange Cash for Ownership Incentives

Equity compensation can reduce immediate cash expense while helping employers attract, retain, and align workers. The appropriate award structure varies by industry and the economics of the role.

  • Equity can conserve employer cash.
  • Ownership can align employees with company growth.
  • Award structures differ across technology, banking, and oil and gas.
  • Retention improves when employees participate in long-term value creation.

“It sets the tone from the beginning and incentives as long as their property aligned. It puts everybody in the right position to help push…”

Joey Fishman · 01:16
#equity#compensation#retention#incentives
Explainer01:49

Why Different Industries Favor Different Equity Awards

Technology companies historically used incentive stock options to compete for scarce technical talent, while banking leaned toward restricted stock awards. Fishman says RSUs can fit the combination of volatility and stability found in oil and gas.

  • Technology firms used large option grants to recruit coders.
  • Banking compensation often relied on restricted stock awards.
  • Oil and gas companies commonly use RSUs.
  • The award should match the industry's cash-flow and risk profile.

“In the banking world, you know, RSAs or restricted stock awards, was a different form of equity that suited better that industry just because of…”

Joey Fishman · 02:13
#stock-options#rsus#banking#technology#oil-and-gas
Explainer03:33

How Performance Stock Units Change Executive Pay

Executive packages increasingly connect additional shares to predetermined performance thresholds. This moves compensation away from automatic annual grants and toward awards that must be earned under the contract.

  • Executive packages can combine multiple equity instruments.
  • Performance units depend on predetermined thresholds.
  • Additional shares are granted only after conditions are met.
  • Performance-linked awards have their own tax treatment.

“after you meet a predetermined threshold that's part of your agreement or part of your contract, you'll be granted X number of additional shares.”

Joey Fishman · 04:00

“show us that you're worth the compensation before we're actually going to be granted to you.”

Joey Fishman · 04:25
#executives#performance-units#compensation#governance
Explainer04:29

Stock Appreciation Rights Deliver Upside Without Shares

Stock appreciation rights compensate an employee for the increase in a reference number of shares without granting the shares themselves. In Fishman's example, a five-dollar increase across one thousand reference shares creates a five-thousand-dollar benefit.

  • The employee may receive no actual shares.
  • Compensation is tied to appreciation over a defined period.
  • The reference share count determines the leverage.
  • Phantom stock may carry less attractive tax consequences.

“we're not granting you or giving you shares per se. But what we're doing is we're going to give you whatever appreciation takes place between…”

Joey Fishman · 05:09
#appreciation-rights#phantom-stock#equity#compensation
Explainer09:24

How 409A Valuations Constrain Private-Company Grants

Post-dot-com reforms tightened private-company equity practices through independent valuations and stricter vesting and pricing rules. Companies cannot simply choose a convenient valuation or issue compensation below the applicable market-value threshold.

  • An independent third party performs the valuation.
  • 409A rules constrain private-company option pricing.
  • Vesting schedules became more formal after backdating scandals.
  • Insiders and executives can face a higher pricing threshold.

“the company itself can't just pull out of its tush whatever valuation they expected to be. Instead, it has to be verified by a third,…”

Joey Fishman · 09:43

“no forms of equity compensation can be given below market value.”

Joey Fishman · 10:13
#409a#valuation#regulation#stock-options
Explainer11:33

How QSBS Can Make Millions in Startup Gains Tax-Free

Qualified small business stock can exclude eligible gains after the required holding period, subject to the governing rules. Fishman describes a case in which long-held shares appreciated from fifteen cents to roughly forty dollars and the first ten million dollars of gains could be tax-free.

  • Eligibility depends on the company, issuance, and holding period.
  • Qualifying gains can receive a major federal tax exclusion.
  • The potential benefit can reach the first ten million dollars of gains.
  • State treatment must be checked rather than assumed.

“That is the gold standard so qsbs or qualified small business stock”

Joey Fishman · 11:49

“the first ten million is entirely tax free at the federal and the state side.”

Joey Fishman · 12:24
#qsbs#startup-equity#capital-gains#taxes

Tool· 1

Tool13:37

Carta Makes Startup Ownership and Dilution Visible

Carta is presented as infrastructure for tracking ownership across seed and later funding rounds. It gives employees and investors a clearer view of the cap table and an estimate of their holdings relative to the latest financing.

  • Carta records ownership across multiple funding rounds.
  • Cap-table visibility helps employees understand dilution.
  • The latest round supplies a reference valuation.
  • Regulatory and administrative tooling improves equity transparency.

“they're the ones who track the entire cap table from seed investments to ABCD round.”

Barry Ritholtz · 14:02

“you get a sense of exactly what the value of your holding is, at least relative to the most recent round.”

Barry Ritholtz · 14:13
#carta#cap-table#startups#dilution